The North Carolina based law firm of Leone Noble & Seate, LLP launches an Online Legal Forms and Advice Store using DirectLaw technology

The Raleigh, North Carolina based law firm of Leone Noble & Seate, LLP , whose practice is focused on personal injury, has launched an "On-Line Unbundled Legal Service" offering legal forms bundled with legal advice.

The firm made its decision to expand its services after repeated requests from existing clients for legal help outside of their main practice areas of personal injury, workers’ compensation and bankruptcy. Partner Beth Leone Noble says, “We felt the time was right to expand our business, but knew that we needed to do so with deference to our shaky economy. It was important for us to be able to offer affordable and convenient services to our clients because that is what they really need right now”. The firm based its pricing on a competitive review of other legal form services available online. “We are very competitive with other online form services,” says Leone Noble, “but with our services, you get an actual N.C. licensed attorney creating and reviewing your legal product”. Leone Noble also makes sure to point out that the forms only apply to residents of North Carolina.

Also available is flat rate legal advice by email. If you have a simple issue that you just need to get an attorney’s advice on, you can submit your issue through the secure server and an attorney will provide you with the advice and direction you need.

Beth Noble founded LN&S with Jennifer Slate in December, 2006, with the mission of helping defend people's rights. Ms. Noble says that she wanted to become a trial lawyer since she was 15 years old, when she started working for a personal injury firm doing filing and running errands.

 

 

LawBidding.com- Alternative Legal Fees

A new site called LawBidding.com was recently launched by Nick Cronin, CEO. The site enables potential clients to submit a description of their legal problem in a post,  and have law firms submit legal fee proposals to serve them.

This kind of reverse bidding process has been tried before in the legal industry during the early days of the Internet without success. [ See LegalConnection ]. But times have changed since 2000. The idea of providing "unbundled legal services" to clients for a fixed fee is more accepted now than it was ten years ago, and the current recession is forcing more solos and small law firms, as well as large law firms to become creative about their pricing structure. Its about time lawyers started thinking differently about pricing. Pricing every transaction by the hour doesn't make any sense. If a carpenter can give you a fixed price for a custom wall unit, a lawyer should be able to estimate a fixed price for standardized transactions where the costs are easily estimated and known. Not all transactions will lend itself to this approach. LawBidding.com also provides for fees based on hourly rates, so this could create a market for hourly rates for certain kinds of transactions. The analysis becomes more difficult when the matter is very complex requires a lawyer with very specialized knowledge or skill.

This concept has also been tried in the United Kingdom:

http://www.ask-solicitors.com/ Bid for Solicitors ; and http://www.takelegaladvice.com

And in Canada: http://www.dynamiclawyers.com/

This is an advertising driven web site, so its feasibility depends on traffic to the site which should grow as consumers and lawyers become more aware of it. Traffic could grow quickly which would attract advertisers.

I could see this idea being picked up by other law sites that already have traffic such as AVVO and Lawyers.com. But I right now LawBidding.com has a head start and we wish Nick good luck with his project.

LegalZoom Sued for UPL in Missouri

It seems like LegalZoom's practices are finally catching up with it. The company is being sued in Missouri on the grounds of unauthorized practice of law and the plaintiff's are requesting class certification. To give an example of how popular LegalZoom's services have become, LegalZoom in its petition for removal to Federal court claims that it has served over 14,000 Missouri residents in a five year period, generating over $5,000.000 in sales. Missouri is a relatively small state, so you can get some idea of what kind of business LegalZoom is doing nationwide. No wonder the legal profession is getting nervous and starting to pay attention to this disruptive player in the legal industry.

A good discussion of the case can be found on the IPWatchdog Blog in an article by the Blog's Founder Gene Quinn.

Click here for a copy of the Missouri Complaint,  LegalZoom's petition for removal to Federal court, and a copy of a letter from the North Carolina Bar requesting that LegalZoom Cease and Desist from operating within North Carolina because it is violating North Carolina's UPL statute when it prepares incorporation papers.

In its defense, LegalZoom in its removal petition,  claims that it is:

" a company whose principal business consists of providing an
online platform for customers to prepare their own legal documents. Customers choose a
product or service suitable to their needs and input data into a questionnaire. Where applicable,
the LegalZoom platform then generates a document using the product and data provided by the
customer."

It this were the case, LegalZoom would be functioning only as a "scrivener" transcribing the client's information into a form. It is well established in some states, including California, where LegalZoom is based, and also Florida for example, that non-lawyers, often called "legal technicians" can help consumers prepare legal documents, as long as they don't give legal advice.

The question of whether LegalZoom's  staff do more than they say, and actually provide legal advice, even if it is limited legal advice, is a question of fact to be determined. It  would be interesting to see what the discovery process turns up and what the  LegalZoom, "platform" actually does and how it works.

For comparison, We the People, a retail chain of 35  "Legal Document Preparation stores  operating in six states, operates under the same principles. Customers complete paper questionnaires which are faxed to a central processing center where a technician simply inserts the client's data into a desktop document assembly program which generates a form. (This is  the same process that many lawyer's use, except lawyers provide legal advice and analysis).  This document preparation process is essentially the same as LegalZoom's except that it takes place off the Internet through a network of retail stores. We the People has been attacked by the Bar in several states for UPL, but the company has worked hard to assure bar authorities that its staff and franchisees don't provide  legal advice.

In theory, We the People, stores are able to reach a market of customers that do not have Internet access and prefer to deal with a human being directly. This market base is likely to have even lower incomes, and ignored by  both attorneys as a target market, and have too much income to qualify for legal aid.  Ironically, however, the We the People pricing is even higher than the LegalZoom pricing, probably because of the cost of maintaining a  retail location. Yet the remaining We the People stores, ( down from a high of 140 stores), seem to be sustainable, if not thriving.

Both companies provide a needed service in the sense that they provide an alternative to consumers who are willing to invest their own time and resources to make sure that the forms offered are the correct forms for their particular situation. Neither company can advise a consumer about what form they should use for their situation, as that would be a form of legal advice. Consumers may be taking a risk when they buy from a self-help document preparation forms company, but it seems this is a risk that consumers are willing to take to avoid what are perceived by many as high legal fees for the same  transaction. For these consumers, what they get is a "good enough" result at a price they can afford.

The other reality is that it is deceptive for LegalZoom and We the People , to claim that using their services will save hundreds or thousands of dollars in legal fees, when two very different category of services are being compared: 
 

  • one a legal information service;
  • and the other a true legal service from a licensed attorney.

    The content of the services are fundamentally different and to compare the services to each other is like comparing "apples' and " oranges". 

    Sometimes you get the same legal result when you use a document preparation service, but often you don't.  Apart from UPL issues, it seems to me that this is a misrepresentation in advertising and these claims should receive closer scrutiny from state consumer protection agencies. (Although I am sure that many of LegalZoom's satisfied customers would say that they don't need any protection).

Both companies demonstrate the principle that you can solve certain legal problems by having access to "legal information." Legal information by itself is a problem solver for many consumers, and the access to legal information and legal forms on the Internet, has simply accelerated this trend at a much faster rate in the last five years than the self-help law book industry has been able to accomplish in 30-35 years of its existence. This means that lawyers will have to do more to demonstrate their value to the consumer, particularly solos and smaller law firms that serve the broad middle class.

A better solution for consumers, as we have advocated in these pages, is for attorneys to offer legal forms bundled with legal advice at an affordable price, perhaps slightly higher than LegalZoom, but offering much greater value, over the Internet. This is often called. "unbundled legal services," enabling a consumer to purchase just the legal services they need, and no more.

Using virtual law firm technology, like DirectLaw's virtual law firm platform, lawyers can be even more efficient that the LegalZoom or We the People models, because the entire document assembly process is software driven creating a legal document instantly from the user's input, ready for the lawyers further review, drafting, and advice-giving. The increased productivity that results from a web-enabled document automation process enables the lawyer to offer a very price competitive service that in fact offers more value. The value of each sale is lower, from the attorney's point of view, but volume can be much higher if effectively marketed. (Neither LegalZoom nor We the People have such a technology in place. No wonder there prices are so high for what you get!).

As long as the legal document preparers don't give legal advice, they should be able to coexist with the legal profession, for certain kinds of common legal transactions, but not all.

But lawyers will have to work harder to provide their value and start offering true legal services online over the Internet. Driving non-lawyer legal document preparers out of business on UPL grounds is not an answer. At the end of the day prosecution efforts, will seem to the consuming public as just another attempt by the legal profession to maintain high legal fees for common transactions, while avoiding the cost of innovation.
 

Chief Justices of New Hampshire and California Support the Concept of "Unbundled Legal Services"

Last week, in a New York Times Opinion article, entitled, A Nation of Do-It-Yourself Lawyers, Chief Justice John T. Broderick, Jr. of New Hampshire and Chief Justice Ronald M. George of California endorsed the concept of the legal profession offering "unbundled legal services" to the broad middle class. Recognizing that there is a large "justice gap" with the number of self-represented parties increasing monthly in the nation's court systems, the Justices called for the legal profession to provide limited legal services as a way of getting at least some representation to unrepresented parties.

They write, " Forty-one states, including California and New Hampshire, have adopted a model rule drafted by the American Bar Association, or similar provisions, which allow lawyers to unbundle their services and take only part of a case, a cost-saving practice known as “limited-scope representation” that, with proper ethical safeguards, is responsive to new realities."

State courts are facing severe budgetary cuts in staff and resources. The current recession has increased the level of disputes landing in those same court systems while at the same time stripping the ability of citizens to pay full service legal fees. Current circumstances make it  even more urgent that the legal profession provide innovative approaches to closing the gap between those who need access to the legal system but who cannot pay full service legal fees.

If citizens cannot access the legal system because they cannot afford it, our legal system will exist only for the "rich", resulting in further stratification of American society. As the Justices write:
"If we are to maintain public trust and confidence in the courts, we must keep faith with our founding principles and our core belief in equal justice under the law."

 

"Good Enough" Legal Solutions

There has been some recent blog comments [See: Carolyn Elefant 's Blog  [about  the meaning of Robert Capps article  in this month's WIRED Magazine, (September 2009) about the concept of "Good Enough",  "Good Enough" solutions, (when cheap and simple is just fine). , and my quote about how this concept applies to the legal profession.

When I was interviewed for the Wired Article, I didn't know the focus of the article, and I was simply reporting my experience in offering limited legal services to consumers for a fee they can afford. I wasn't saying at all that lawyer's should do less competent or less excellent work. Rather I was thinking about how legal transactional events between consumer and lawyer can be restructured to get to the "good enough result" that many consumers seem to want.

My best example is one that I participate in daily, and which I mentioned in previous blog post. Divorcing couples opt for a quick settlement, even if they don't get "every right" they are entitled to in the interest of reducing their legal fees and getting on with their lives.

Divorce lawyers can charge from $5,000 - $10,000 (low-end of fee schedule) for even a relatively simple divorce. case. The lawyers will say there are no simple divorce cases. But that is from the the viewpoint of the lawyer. From the consumer point of view, they have a choice to spend $5,000 for each counsel who is representing either party- or to take the money and use it to get on with their lives. The question is--  what is the ROI from the consumer's point of view?  Sometimes the investment of $5,000.00 in legal fees is worth it. ($5,000.00 is really a low end estimate). Consumers don't think so, or there would not be thousands of pro se litigants representing themselves in family court. Pro Se Representation is a good example of a restructuring of the lawyer/client relationship to get a "good enough result." The success of LegalZoom -  admittedly a service which is a very small step above a bare legal forms service is more evidence of consumer preferences.

So is the movement towards "limited legal services." Lawyers, mostly solos and small law firms, that think that otherwise and think that full service representation is the only way to go are not facing consumer reality. These lawyers are living in a dream world.

Consumers want solutions to their legal problems. If they can get legal solutions in a different form than a traditional legal service from an attorney that is "good enough" at much less cost, they will turn away from the legal profession and seek those alternatives if they get a result that satisfies their expectations. 

 

Lawyers That Offer UnBundled Legal Services

When lawyers offer "unbundled legal services" to their clients they offer only those services that the client wants to pay for, leaving to the client those tasks that the client can do for herself. "Unbundled legal services" is also called "discrete task representation" because the attorney only undertake legal fees for the client. The client is back in control.

A good example of unbundled legal services in the family law area is lawyer preparation of the legal pleadings for a no-fault and uncontested divorce bundled with legal advice for a fixed fee, leaving to the client other tasks such as service on the opposing party and self-representation at the divorce hearing. Hearings for a no-fault and uncontested divorce are primarily administrative in nature, with the Judge or Master conforming the accuracy of the documents and establishing a record that the divorce is consensual and that all the requirements of time of separation and proper service have been satisfied. Most pro se parties can handle these tasks by themselves without the presence of an attorney, thus saving hundreds of dollars in legal fees.

I know this to be a fact from my own experience, because the virtual law firm family law practice that I operate in Maryland has served hundreds of pro se parties seeking their own uncontested divorce during the last four years.

If you want to save on legal fees, look for an attorney in your area who is willing to provide "unbundled legal services". I have been compiling a list of these law firms in different states for the past year. If you have a problem finding an attorney in your state, send me an email and I will see if I can help you identify one.

On-Line Course in "Unbundled Legal services"

 I am offering an on-line course on "unbundling legal services" with a particular focus on how to offer limited legal services over the Internet.  "Limited legal services" is another name for "unbundled legal services."The course begins the week of June 1, 2009 and there will be 7 sessions over a 12 week period. By the end of the course participants will have developed a design for an "unbundled legal service" that can be integrated with their traditional law practice. Topics include: how to "unbundle" legal services by task or by issue; how to create and price an on-line service; marketing of on-line "unbundled legal services"; and ethical and regulatory requirements for offering "unbundled legal services."

For a detailed syllabus go to: Solo Practice University

Solo Practice University

I joined up as faculty with Solo Practice University last week. This is a new online educational venture started by Susan Carter Liebel , a coach and consultant to solo practices. Law schools really don't teach law students how to open a solo practice -- they are too busy training students for large law practice for which many of their students aspire but very few achieve. This program will be a welcome addition to bar association CLE courses as it focuses on the needs of solos, who still make up the largest percentage of practicing lawyers.

I am going to develop a course on how to offer what is known as limited legal services or "unbundled legal services" both online and offline. My plan is to use pre-recorded video, discussion groups, an online blog, and email to help course participants develop a business plan for increasing and diversifying their revenue base. I am looking forward to this learning experience in how to deliver legal services online.

Virtual Law Firm in Iowa Offers Legal Forms Bundled with Legal Advice

Bernardo Granwehr has launched Iowa's first virtual law firm focusing on family law matters and wills at IowaLawyerOnLine. The law firm offers legal forms bundled with legal advice for fixed price. For example, Iowa Divorce Forms with Minor Children sells for $299.00 and a Will sells for $100.00. The divorce services are designed for pro se itigants. The web site is powered by our DirectLaw hosted service which includes the Rapidocs web-enabled document automation capability. Cllients complete on-line questionnaires which generate completed forms and documents ready for attorney review. The use of a web-enabled document automation capability keeps the cost of document  creation to a minimum enabling the attorney to spend time giving legal advice and additional custom-drafting at still make a reasonable fee for the time expended.

Unbundled Legal Services

The “unbundled law” law movement is expanding.  "Unbundled" or "limited legal services" is a form of legal service delivery where lawyers represent clients for provide a limited and discrete service for a fixed fee. This is a good alternative for consumers who cannot afford to pay a law firm to handle every aspect of their case, which can be costly.

When a law firm delivers a limited legal service, the client does part of the work, and the law firm does part of the work. For example, in an contested divorce case, the law firm will prepare all of the forms and provide legal advice, but the client attends the divorce hearing, which is often just a formality, without the benefit of counsel. By eliminating counsel at the hearing, the client saves the additional cost of paying for the lawyer’s time to attend the hearing, and the usual waiting time that precedes the hearing itself. This can result in a significant cost saving.

For additional information on this trend see; UnBundled Law  and the American Bar Association's Pro Se/Unbundling Resource Center, published by the ABA Standing Committee on the Delivery of Legal Services.